Anders Andersen

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Posts by Anders Andersen

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  34

  Oct 2017 WT again shunning instructions

  by Daniel1555 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

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  Anders Andersen

  Well at least Watchtower acknowledges that their behavior is anything but normal.
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  37

  Watchtower teaches that Jesus dying on the stake is no longer certain

  by Listener in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watchtower has held for many years that jesus died on a stake and held strongly to this teaching.

  w 1951 3/15 the above agrees with the new world translation of the christian greek scriptures in its appendix, page 769, in saying that the instrument upon which jesus was nailed was a stake without a crossbeam, and not the religiously represented “cross”; and that the greek word used for that instrument in ancient time meant a “stake” and not the conventional religious cross.

  they are no longer certain on this point.

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  Anders Andersen

  @Vanderhoven

  https://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/questions/did-jesus-die-on-cross/
  
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  53

  The saddest song of all time?

  by Bad_Wolf in

  1. social
  2. entertainment

  i would pick this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th2w6oxx0kq.

  i don't know how so many are happy or fine if thinking this life is it.

  haven't lost parents yet, but when with them, sometimes i'll think of this song.

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  Anders Andersen

  St. James Infirmary. Somehow I'm always identifying with the man making that sad, lone, fearsome walk.

  There are many versions but I know the one by Van Morrison best: https://youtu.be/s_Tc08tIBR4

  And then there is Anywhere I lay my head by Tom Waits. The feeling of both abandonment, loneliness and acceptance that anywhere can (or must) be home. I guess it appeals to me as I've been known to say (when abroad) that as long as my wife (and now my daughter too) are with me, I wouldn't really care if my whole country and everyone I know suddenly disappeared. Probably that is what also made me have less issue with losing all JW friends. That country just disappeared and I don't care too much.

  https://youtu.be/mPT1sjbGYNg
  

  
  

  I heard this song the first time in an acapella version, and I like it much better. Somehow Tom Waits' voice distracts me from the song. Unfortunately that acapella version isn't online (except a tiny sample here http://www.montezuma.nl/sites/default/files/Anywhere%20I%20Lay%20My%20Head.mp3?uuid=5955511dce3e3 ) Somehow it's much sadder like that.
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  28

  Dutch conventions organized like circuits

  by Gorbatchov in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here in holland jw.org is organizing for the first time the yearly conventions like circuits.

  the whole summer the new convention hall is used for small group conventions instead of 10.000 seat external halls.. it keeps the money in the organization.

  not renting external buildings.. the 29.000 witnesses here are divided now into 2.000 seat audience.. g..

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  Anders Andersen

  From the Borg's perspective:

  Upsides:

  • Charge fee per publisher and grab money instead of paying money to 3rd party venue.
  • Easier to hide dwindling attendance numbers: rearrange a bit, go from 10 conventions to 9, and everyone suddenly experiences an attendance increase while overall numbers are actually down!
  • Less journalists and film crews visiting and asking hard questions. They might come for a 10k cult fest in a big venue; 2k in a church building isn't extraordinary as there are more than a handful mega churches with that number of visitors each week.
  • More brothers who can be made to feel important because more speakers are needed, and with non-assignments like parking duty.

  Downsides:

  • No very big events to show we're The One True Religion. All big meetings are equally bland and boring. Easier for people to stay away.
  • More speakers needed = speaker quality goes down = less indoctrination power.
  • Even harder for youngsters to find a fuckbuddy mate spiritual healthty partner --> more 'unevenly yoked' marriages -> more people leaving.

  Well money is their first and only priority anyways....
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  19

  Looking for experiences from those who are married with kids and have dissacociated

  by UnshackleTheChains in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  this is a question for those who officially left the organisation and are married; and your spouse and kids are still in.'.

  i just wanted to find out what your experience has been when you dissacociated.the following questions go through my mind all the time.

  it always comes back to the what if's!.

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  Anders Andersen

  I'm not officially DA. But I didn't fade either.
  I went from being an active bro with some privileges (reading WT, public prayer) to atheist evolutionist apostate in a single day. For myself it took about 4-6 weeks, but everyone else only saw the result. After I told my wife my findings, I never went to a single meeting, and she told everyone why.

  • Do some witnesses still come to your house for association with your still in spouse? Or do all of them avoid your home like the plague?
    If they do, they do it during the day when I'm not home. Only 2 BFF of both of us visit when I'm there, but not nearly as often as before.
    Others (some pioneer friends who had dinner at our place every week) never came back at all.
  • Do some of the more down to earth...keeping it real ones still talk to you as normal when they come to visit your spouse etc?
    They do, but I'm somewhat sure they wouldn't if I were officially DA/DF.
  • Do they allow their kids over for sleep overs and association and carry on as normal?
    N/A as our kid is too young for that. Otherwise I doubt they would. Only the BFF kids ever visit us, but only when it's needed (i.e. my wife babysits them).
  • Did you write to relatives who are JW's and respectfully say they need not worry; that they could still come over, but that you would respectfully refrain from discussing anything spiritual out of respect for their beliefs?
    Yes I did. In-laws are JW (my own family all POMO). BIL (an elder) and SIL shun me. FIL/MIL are shocked and sad but treat me as before. But I know MIL will follow the WT rules and shun me if I'm officially out.
  • Do any or even all of your JW relatives avoid visiting your home despite the fact your spouse and children are still attending?
    Yes BIL/SIL. Good thing they live in another country and aren't around often. They were recently and avoided me as much as they could.
  • Did your dissacociation cause a lot of stress between you and your spouse and children?
    Wife: yes. Two years of stress and alienation. I made sure to never bring up JW related topics. We only talked about those first month I was out as my wife wanted to understand me (which she still doesn't). By now she is capable of seeing me (instead of the Satanic apostate) again. She wouldn't have stayed if it weren't for our child, who she thinks deserves both parents 24/7.
    Kid doesn't know, is only 2 years old.
  • Did your experience affect your mental health?
    No, not really. But I'm capable of detaching myself from (lost) friends and perfectly happy solitary. I'm also not prone to stress or anxiety. I did notice myself lying in bed awake, having hypothetical conversations with my wife.

  • Was it worth it? Or do you wish you had simply faded?
    I can't play pretend, and will not be someone I'm not to please others. So yes, it's worth it. I couldn't have done the long fade.

  By the way, if you're capable of pretending/faking, I suggest to fake starting research and bring your wife with you on your trip. My wife was mostly shocked that I didn't inform her when I started my research. It was a breach of trust. I might even have gotten her out...I've heard more than one exjw relate the same. Don't keep your spouse in the dark too long.
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  24

  FFA - 4H - Conscious matter or not allowed?

  by Jennifer Lehrer in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  i was baptized 4 years ago, i have 2 little girls who love their bunnies, so this year we reached out to 4h and started our own 4h group - this was after asking the elders for counsel.

  none provided.

  now after doing this for 3 months i am being brought before a judicial committee for neutrality.

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  Anders Andersen

  Honey, everything is between you and your God. Nobody has any authority over you but you!
  I hope you stand for your principles.

  I don't know much about 4-H, but it doesn't look non-neutral to me?
  

  Also, I know a brother in Brazil who works for CISV (see http://www.cisv.org/ and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CISV_International ) and that kinda looks similar? He doesn't get into trouble for it.

  As for neutrality:

  • Watchtower registered with the UN as an NGO (see also https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/united-nations-association.php )
  • Watchtower regularly takes part in OCSE (a political organisation in Europe) conferences (see https://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/politics.php#political )

  How dare any of those who speak for Watchtower condemn you?

  And by the way, welcome to the forum! We don't bite!
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  18

  Human element seen in 10 commandments

  by venus in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i appreciate 10 commandments because they try to ensure law and order in the society.

  however, i have problem with introductory statements that say: “you shall have no other gods before[a] me… you shall not bow down to them or worship them; for i, the lord your god, am a jealous god, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.” (exodus 20:3-6).

  1) this contradicts the characteristics of god described in mathew 5:44-48 where love is described as loving everyone without thinking whether others reciprocate or not.

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  Anders Andersen

  Only after I woke up I actually read about other ancient laws with great interest.

  I had always simply accepted the claim that 'God's law' (or so the myth tells us) was highly superior to the barbaric practises of the heathens.

  Until I actually read the contents of these old laws. They are very much alike....except that Moses was almost 1500 years late. So much for being superior.

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_legal_codes?wprov=sfla1
  
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  41

  Some prayers really annoy me

  by stillin in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i realize that prayer is a really personal thing, but representing a group in prayer has become so full of cliche's that i just want to vomit sometimes.

  co week almost every prayer has the phrase "special week of activity" in it.. then there's "please look after the sick and afflicted.".

  not so much anymore, "please bless this food and the hands that prepared it.".

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  Anders Andersen

  Pomo with pimi wife here.

  I get slightly amused whenever my wife says a bedtime prayer for our 2 year old child.

  1. Kudos to my wife for not suggesting to say a prayer...at least not when I'm around. But the fact that our kid asks mom to say a prayer indicates she does initiate prayer for the afternoon nap when I'm not around. Or grandma does when she's babysitting.
  2. My wife doesn't cover her head she praying in my presence. Of course I don't care, but I wonder if that means I am officially considered as not-baptised? Or maybe she has special permission or something? :-D
  3. Sometimes she starts a (automatic pilot) sentence and realizes halfway through it's somewhat odd, but now she has to continue. Example: we had diner over at 'worldly' friends...(first time ever!). She started praying 'Thank you Jehovah for the lovely and encouraging..........association we had tonight'. I lolled inside.
  4. What annoys me is that apparently Jehovah fixed everything good for us. ' We had fun with exjw grandma today, thank you for that Jehovah. Some random dude gave us ice cream, thank you Jehovah. Thank you for the home we live in and all the good stuff we have. School was nice, thank you Jehovah'. What about actually thanking grandma, the random dude, dad who works hard to earn some money, the teachers who did their best?

  So whenever my wife is not there and my kid asks atheist me to pray, I do.

  Hi grandma, you made lovely dinner tonight, thanks you for that! Oh and we had ice creams, thank you random dude! Also thank you dad for providing. Thank you teacher for being nice. Thank you [child] for being lovely today and making fun with mom and dad. Thanks everybody for a nice day. Now let's sleep well!

  
  

  'Prayer' is for atheists too ;-)
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  5

  Newbee here - question about baptism validity and special circumstance

  by MrRoboto in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i would like to thank the operators of this website and all the others here who support those who are walking up.

  perhaps i'll share some personal story stuff at another time but i've been lurking here for a while, maybe 2 years or so.

  finally got the bearings to create an account :).

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  Anders Andersen

  Was the Wrongdoer’s Baptism Valid?
  46. When dealing with wrongdoers,the elders should not raise questions about the validity of the individual’s baptism.If the individual raises the issue, the elders may refer him to the February 15, 2010,Watchtower,page 22. Further information on rebaptism can be found in the February 15,1964,Watchtower,pages 123-126, and the March 1,1960,Watchtower,pages 159-160. Rebaptism is a personal matter.

  
  48. There are rare occasions when it is obvious that the baptism was invalid because serious wrongdoing did not cease before baptism, even for a brief period of time. For example, it may be that at the time of baptism, the individual was living immorally with a member of the opposite or the same sex, was a member of a non-neutral organization, or some-thing similar. If there are questions, the branch office should be consulted.

  Source: Shepherd the Flock of God (secret elders manual).

  According to these rules, your buddy may get what he wishes since the military is a 'non-neutral organization'. But I doubt it will really fly.
  Especially if he ever signed some paperwork (for Bethel service, RBC or whatever) after he left the military reserves; then they might argue he signed with Watchtower showed his decision to be a true Christian (e.g. a JW).
  
  And fear not, even if his baptism is declared null and void, the effect will most likely be the same as when DFed or DAed: the big shun will start. After all, those who ever chose Watchtower Jehovah cannot simply walk away.
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  65

  My Younger Brother Has Left The Witnesses!! :-D

  by pale.emperor in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  absolutely thrilled to give you the news that my younger brother, a zealous full-time pioneer has left the witnesses!!.

  i haven't seen or spoke to him in a year.

  i'd lost all contact with him, no facebook, no mobile number, i didn't even know his address because he'd moved house.

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  Anders Andersen

  Congratulations for both of you!